sorry, NO!

[ill_made_knight]

on reading the following:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnbeckett/2014/10/thinking-about-the-gods.html
spawned somewhat by:
http://bansheearts.com/2014/10/theurgic-binding-or-st-just-got-real/

Absolutely not!
"never give your life force over to ANYONE or ANYTHING."
let me re iterate :
"9 Now, the question is raised: 'Since people think that they will become the Whole by knowing brahman, what did brahman know that enabled it to become the Whole?'

10 In the beginning this world was only brahman, and it knew only itself (Atman), thinking: 'I am brahman.' As a result, it became the Whole. Among the gods, likewise, whosoever realized this, Only they became the Whole. It was the same also among the seers and among humans. Upon seeing this very Point, the seer Vamadeva proclaimed: 'I was Manu, and I was the sun.' This is true even now. If a man knows 'I am brahman' in this way, he becomes this whole world. Not even the gods are able to prevent it, for he becomes their very self (Atman). So when a man venerates another deity, thinking, 'He is one, and I am another', he does not understand. As livestock is for men, so is he for the gods. As having a lot of livestock is useful to a man, so each man proves useful to the gods. The loss of even a single head of livestock is painful; how much more if many are lost. The gods, therefore, are not pleased at the prospect of men coming to understand this."
Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 1.4.9-10
from Upanishads, a new translation,Patrick Olivelle,Oxford World Classics


let me re iterate :
So when a man venerates another deity, thinking, 'He is one, and I am another', he does not understand. As livestock is for men, so is he for the gods. As having a lot of livestock is useful to a man, so each man proves useful to the gods. The loss of even a single head of livestock is painful; how much more if many are lost. The gods, therefore, are not pleased at the prospect of men coming to understand this."

more later as I have to go, this is what i get for deciding to peruse some Modern pagan stuff to kill time before going to work ,silly me.
(and yes, I AM a stone cold full bore polytheist, among other things)

Comments

[leafshimmer.livejournal.com]

I haven't read those posts (I just attempted the Beckett, but it's not making much sense since I haven't read the Morpheus one), so I am not sure just what your own response is aimed towards. But I personally feel that how Pagans/polytheists/whatever interact with the Gods is very different from the monotheist paths where, explicitly or implicitly, the God slave paradigm is in force. (and a number of folks in the "Polytheist" badge community have FERVENTLY embraced that concepts and practices of God owned and God slave).

I hadn't seen that particular Upanisad passage before, but the phrase "as livestock is for men, so is he for the gods" makes me think of Lao-tzu's line about straw dogs (which my brain is refusing to produce at the moment). Interesting resonance of imagery there.

[chemalfait.livejournal.com]

it's definitely the 'god slave paradigm' that bothers me most. Also the ideas about 'in service to the god(s)'. It triggers all sorts of warning signs for me. I'm a witch not a priest, and anything that has the slightest aroma of sacerdotalism raises my hackles.

[sanacrow.livejournal.com]

I am a priestess as well as a witch, and I still think the god slave thing is squicky. I own myself and I am no one's slave. There are some things I do "in service" as it were, but *only* and entirely because of a negotiated mutually beneficial arrangement.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

You know, I had mixed feelings about Morpheus' post. I too have had.... challenging things occur to me thanks to some of my gods. Again "be careful what you pray for, you might just get it." But I do question the god breaking her leg *unless Morpheus had prayed for a way to free up time and space soley for book writing.*

But yes, there is a STRONG practice of god-slavery language in polytheism. I'm reading a great book on devotional polytheism, but the author puts her gods above EVERYTHING. My own experiences and theologies plus my Feri training has me viewing all of this as very odd. As Shimmer points out this master-slave language is something I left behind when I walked away from monotheism.

Besides, I view myself as *in relationship* with the gods. I want power-with, not power-over. Even if my power-with is of a completely different kind than the gods.

[seyewailo.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that I do not have a dedication to a particular God like Morpheus does. But I have certainly called on dangerous deities to accomplish great things. That turned my life upside down. So yes, I was asking for it. Literally and figuratively.

I mostly see such things as either flow (order) or chance (chaos). Like the Greek Gods, who were themselves subject to Fate. Gods have helped me to connect to the flow, but I do just fine getting injured on my own. After all, one could view her ankle sprain as crossing, but still consistent with flow.

However, I will say that I have been commanded to do something by that Goddess. When I hesitated she shook me. I could not stop shaking until I sat down and wrote what she wanted me to write. So, yeah, sone times they get heavy handed.

Which leaves me thinking thinks thoughts.

[chemalfait.livejournal.com]

"So, yeah, some times they get heavy handed. "
I know that all too well....

"I mostly see such things as either flow (order) or chance (chaos). "
I mostly see such as flow (order). to what appears to be chance or chaos is the result of 'flow/order' which is more or less hidden or not seen. If I am 'in service' to anything, it is that 'flow', as are the gods, so more 'in service with'. Sometimes on one side, sometimes on the other side of 'flow'. Sometimes allied and sometimes contentious.
As a certain someone once put it "I am a molecule of the universe and of the Great Spirit, of whom we are all a part. And I demand my rights."

[leafshimmer.livejournal.com]

Is the book by Galina Krasskova? I've known her for years. She's a gifted poet, but in recent years have gone way out of balance. I saw a video of her from last year and she seemed as if she is completely loony-tunes at this point.

One of the things that one of the people who trained me in the Minoan Brotherhood really emphasized was being able to stand your ground with the Gods. I think it builds respect with Them. I had to maintain very strict boundaries with Odhinn. Whenever I do that, I'm aware that He commands enough power to just blast me to smithereens. Thing is, though, that if He chooses to do that, he gets NOTHING from me. If we agree to some degree of mutual respect and limitation, then we might be able to get something done.

I have found that if you put it this way, They can become surprisingly willing to negotiate. The ones that take an interest in us (many of them really could not care at all what we do) generally have specific things they need to accomplish and on this plain, in incarnation, that can only be done if we are willing to work with them. Just how I have come to see it.

[ewigweibliche.livejournal.com]

Yes! I do not know her, only by reputation, which is...... mixed. I know people who know her personally and say she is fascinating, wonderful, complex, and a good friend. But her internet reputation is mean spirited and snarky. I don't read her blog because of her tone. But this book is really good. If I just don't take on her THE GODS ARE EVERYTHING mentality then there is a lot to be gleaned from her book.

I tend not to pick the easy gods too. I mean, all the Feri gods are..... intense. And Kali is my Main Lady, but while they have powers I'll never have, I also have something they do not: a body. I love the anthropological-theological take that Feri has, that we are gods too, it allows me to meet the gods as "equals" - if not, pure equals then as a being that has sovereignty and consent and gifts of my own. Anyway, Kali has been firm, but so far no god has just come swooping into my life setting things on fire or breaking my legs.

[chemalfait.livejournal.com]

what bugs me about what Morpheus relates is what if it were her publisher who broke her ankle to get the book written? silly I know but there's an underlying idea of letting the gods skate on things we wouldn't tolerate at the hands of humans.

[queenofhalves]

well put.